Skip to main content
U.S. flag

An official website of the United States government

Here's how you know

Holiday Farm Fire Update 104

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News

Springfield, Ore. Containment continues to progress on the Holiday Farm Fire.  The 173,094-acre fire is now 75 contained.  In addition to the 20 hand crews, 39 fire engines, 4 dozers, and 7 water tenders, there are another 18 pieces of heavy equipment assisting with the restoration work on the fire. 

Suppression restoration work is occurring in many areas around the fire. This work is led by specially qualified personnel called Resource Advisors.  The Resource Advisors on the fire determine areas that need special attention to prevent erosion, or return the area back to its pre-fire condition. Besides the work that has already been detailed, there are other pieces of restoration planned.  This work includes pump site repair, where stream beds are assessed and repaired if needed will occur.  Roads that may have seen heavy use will be re-shaped and graded if necessary, and ditches will be cleaned of all debris to ensure they continue to function and minimize erosion on the roadways.  These are a few examples of the work that is yet to be completed. The additional heavy equipment onsite is used in concert with hand crew resources to complete this restoration work.  Equipment that is not typical for firefighting are things such as road graders, excavators, log skidders, dump trucks, and numerous others.  This equipment in vital in the repair effort.  Over the weekend, firefighters have seen more active fire behavior on some parts of the fire.  This increase is due to the warm and dry weather pattern that has been sitting over the region.  Firefighters were prepared for this activity and have taken action where needed to keep the fire within containment lines. A reminder that several area and road closures remain throughout the area.  These closures are subject to change as the need for them evolves.  Please check with the appropriate sources prior to leaving for your trip. For information related to road closures and delays, please visit: www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx Information for the Willamette National Forest can be found at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/willamette/fire Information on Bureau of Land Management closures can be found at: https://www.blm.gov/alert/fire-closures-and-fire-restrictions For fire information inquiries, call (541) 357-9729 or visit https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7170/. The Holiday Farm Fire Facebook page will also continue with updates (@holidayfarmfire).

 

Fire managers request cooperation on area and road closure for Holiday Farm

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;} Springfield, Ore.- Fire managers working with the Holiday Farm Fire are asking for cooperation from the public in observing the various area and road closures for the fire area.  In total, 173,094 acres make up the footprint of the fire.  There are countless miles of roads and large areas of land that are closed to public access.  With Highway 126 reopening and hunting season beginning on Saturday, members of the IMT are concerned about people entering the fire area.

“The fire and the preceding wind event have changed a lot of things across the landscape and added many hazards that weren’t there previously.  Firefighters have worked to identify and mitigate many of these hazards, however, they still remain throughout the fire area.”  said Incident Commander Joe Hessel, with ODF Team 1. “We still have over 450 firefighters out working to secure fire lines against further spread, and we’re simultaneously beginning to address the potential for erosion on those same lines.  It’s still a busy and complex environment and at this point, we’re just asking folks to stay out of the fire area.  It’s for your safety and the safety of our firefighters.”  continued Hessel. Resource professionals have been assessing the overall effects of the fire on things such as infrastructure, which includes recreation sites, bridges, and roadways among others.  This work will continue even after the fire suppression work is completed.  Some areas may be closed for the long-term as land managers prioritize work to be completed and ensure public safety measures can be met.  Closure orders are evaluated frequently and are subject to change.  It is important to check the status of closures prior to leaving to visit the forest. For information on the area closure for the Willamette National Forest please visit: https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/willamette/fire For information on the Bureau of Land Management closures please visit: https://www.blm.gov/alert/fire-closures-and-fire-restrictions Fire managers request that no one park on the shoulders of the road, avoid distractions and follow the newly reduced speed limit through the area.  While the highway is open, most area roads will remain closed and travelers should not try to turn off and utilize these arterial roads.  For information related to road closures and delays, please visit: www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx

Holiday Farm Fire Update 103

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News

Springfield, Ore. Firefighters continue to make progress on the 173,094-acre Holiday Farm Fire.  There are approximately 450 firefighters on the ground during the day-shift.  Night shift is smaller, with approximately 20 personnel on the ground.  Through all of the hard work on both day and night shifts, the fire is now 73% contained.

Many of sections of the fire line have been patrolled and gridded for smokes.  With fewer hot spots near the control line, many crews are being tasked with suppression repair work.  One facet of suppression repair is installing water bars.  These features are constructed in fire lines and roads to help with erosion control on slopes. Another part of suppression repair is to open up the dozer berms that are created when bulldozers are used to create fire line.  Crews methodically tear down these berms and ensure there is no heat in them.  The fire lines will be seeded so that the new vegetation can help stabilize soils in the short-term. Crews are also gathering equipment from the line that is no longer being used in the suppression effort.  Hose, fittings, pumps, and other equipment is brought back to fire camp.  Once in camp, it is rehabbed and readied for its next job, or to be returned to the fire cache system to be deployed to another fire if needed. With Highway 126 being open to through traffic, travelers are reminded to be alert while traveling through the fire area.  Avoid all distractions and do not pull over on the shoulders.  Travelers can expect to see a presence of firefighting personnel and equipment.  For information related to road closures and delays, please visit: www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx Area and road closures are still in effect across the fire area. Information for the Willamette National Forest can be found at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/willamette/fire Information on Bureau of Land Management closures can be found at: https://www.blm.gov/alert/fire-closures-and-fire-restrictions As the weather pattern transitions for a short period of westerly flow, firefighters are expecting to see temperatures in the mid-70s to lower 80s. Along with these cooler temperatures, relative humidity will be slightly elevated.  Firefighters will use these cooler and moister conditions to their advantage as they continue mopping up. For fire information inquiries, call (541) 357-9729 or visit https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7170/. The Holiday Farm Fire Facebook page will also continue with updates (holidayfarmfire@face book.com).

ORDER 0618002021 FOREST ORDER OCCUPANCY AND USE

Related Incident:
Publication Type: Closures

Pursuant to 16 USC 551 and 36CFR 261.50 (a) and (b), and to provide for public safety, the following acts are prohibited in the areas described in this order on National Forest System lands within the administrative boundaries of the Willamette National Forest. This Order is effective on September 25, 2020 and shall be in effect until rescinded or December 31, 2020, whichever comes first.
PROHIBITIONS:
1. Being on a road. 36 CFR § 261.54(e)
2. Being on a trail. 36 CFR § 261.55(a)
3. Entering or using a developed recreation site or portion thereof. 36 CFR § 261.58 (b)
4. Entering into or being upon National Forest System Lands closed for the protection of public health or safety. 36 CFR § 261.53(e)

CLOSURE DESCRIPTION:
All closures are contained within the State of Oregon, and Marion, Linn, and Lane Counties, and within the Administrative Boundaries of the Willamette National Forest.

The closure includes the US Forest Service general forest areas, developed recreation sites, roads, trails, and recreation residence tracts (aka “summer homes”) as described below and as depicted on the attached map and incorporated into this order as “Attachment A”.

The Holiday Farm Closure Area begins at the intersection of State Highway 126 and the Willamette National Forest Boundary west of McMullins Boat Ramp between Sections 1 and Section 2 in Township 17S Range 3E. It continues north following the Forest administrative boundary to its junction with State Highway 20. It continues east along the south side of Hwy 20 to its intersection with Forest Service Road 2672, then proceeds south along FSR 1598, incorporates FSR 1598, to its intersection with FSR 1500. It continues south along FSR 1500, incorporates FSR 1500, to its intersection with FSR 2654 (Deer Creek Road). It proceeds south along the east side of FSR 2654, and incorporates FSR 2654, to the intersection of FSR 2654 with Hwy 126. It then continues southwest along Hwy 126 for 8.1 miles to Section 13, T 16S, R 5E. It then proceeds south for 4.9 miles from Hwy 126 to FSR 1993, then west along the south side of FSR 1993, and incorporating FSR 1993, to the intersection with FSR 1994 on the east side of Cougar Reservoir, then continues to the intersection of FSR 1994 and FSR 1900-500, incorporating FSR 1994. It continues south on FSR 1900-500, incorporating FSR 1900-500, to its intersection with FSR 1900 and continues along the east side of FSR 1900, incorporating FRS 1900, to the intersection of FSR 1900 and FSR1980. It proceeds along the south and east sides of FSR 1980, incorporating FSR 1980, to the intersection with FSR 2618 at the northeast edge of Section 30, T 18S, R 5E. It continues west along the south side of FSR 2618, incorporating FSR 2618, to the intersection with FSR 2619 at the northwest corner of Section 23, T 18S, R 4E. It continues northwest along the west side of FSR 2619, incorporating FSR 2619, to the intersection with FSR 1800-440. It continues west along the south side of FSR 1800-440 to FSR 18. From there it continues west along the south side of FSR 18, incorporating FSR 18, to where it intersects the Forest boundary on the west side of Section 31, T 18S, R 2E. It then continues north along the Forest boundary for 5 miles to the northwest corner of Section 6, T 18S, R 2E. From there it continues east along the Forest boundary for 9.2 miles to the intersection with the McKenzie River Ranger District boundary in Section 34, T 17S, R 3E. It then follows the Forest administrative boundary 3 miles north to the northwest corner of Section 23, T 17S, R 3E, and then proceeds for 2.1 miles northeast to the Forest administrative boundary at the southwest corner of Section 1, T 17S, R 3E, and follows the National Forest Boundary north to end at the intersection with State Highway 126.

The Beachie Creek and Lionshead Closure Area begins at the junctions of Hwy 20 and Hwy 22 in Section 14, T 13S, R 7 E, and continues north along the east side of Hwy 22 to the intersection with FSR 11 on the south edge of Section 29, T 11S, R 7E. It proceeds west along the south side of FSR 11, and incorporates FSR 11, to the intersection with the Forest boundary in Section 28, T 11S, R 4E. It follows the Forest administrative boundary north to its intersection with Monument Peak Road in the northwest corner of Section 21, T 10S, R 4E, the follows the Forest administrative boundary southeast to Section 35, T 11S, R 4E, continues east along the Forest boundary to Section 31, T 10S, R 5E, and north along the Forest administrative boundary to the south edge of the Opal Creek Scenic Recreation Area at Section 12, T 9S, R 4E. It proceeds west and north along the Opal Creek Scenic Area boundary and then east along the Opal Creek Wilderness boundary until it meets the Bull of the Woods Wilderness boundary in Section 21, T 8S, R 5E. It then follows the Willamette National Forest administrative boundary south and east to the boundary with the Warm Springs Indian Reservation, and follows the Willamette National Forest administrative boundary south to its intersection with the Deschutes National Forest. It continues south along the Willamette National Forest boundary to its intersection with Hwy 20, crosses Hwy 20 and continues south along the Forest boundary to its intersection with FSR 2690-910, proceeds west along the south side of FSR 2690-910, incorporating FSR 2690-910, to its intersection with FSR 2690. It proceeds north on FSR 2690 to the intersection with FSR 2690-860 and then east along the south side of FSR 2690-860, incorporating FSR 2690-860, to its intersection with FSR 2690-818. It then proceeds north along the west side of FSR 2690-818, incorporates FSR 2690-818, to its intersection with FSR 2690- 814. It then proceeds east along the north side of FSR 2690-814, incorporating FSR 2690-814, to its intersection with FSR 2690-805. It continues northeast along the west side of FSR 2690- 805, and incorporates FSR 2690-805, to its intersection with FSR 2690. It continues north along the west side of FSR 2690, incorporating FSR 2690, to its intersection with Hwy 20, then proceeds west along the north side of Hwy 20 to end at the junction with Hwy 22.

National Forest System lands in the following isolated areas to the south of Hwy 20 are also included in the closure: the northeast quadrant of Section 31, T 14S, R 3E; the northeast and southwest quadrants of Section 26, T 14S, R 2E; the southwest quarter of the northeast quadrant and the southwest quadrant of Section 22, T 14S, R 2E; the southern half of the northeast quadrant and the southeast quarter of the northwest quadrant and the northeast quarter of the southwest quadrant in Section 21, T 14S, R 2E; the northeast quarter of the southeast quadrant of Section 15, T 14S, R 2E; the southern half of Section 11, T 14S, R 2E; the southwest quadrant of Section 12, T 14S, R 2E, and the southwest quarter of the northwest quadrant and the southeast quarter of the southeast quadrant also in Section 12, T 14S, R 2E.

EXEMPTIONS: Pursuant to 36 CFR § 261.50 (e), the following persons are exempt from this Order:
(1) Any person with a permit specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or omission;
(2) Owners or lessees of land in the area. Lessees of Recreation Residences (aka Summer Homes) inside the closure areas must have written permission specifically authorizing entry and identifying the person/address applicable.
(3) Any Federal, State, or Local Officer or member in the performance of an official duty.

These restrictions are implemented for the safety of the public.

This order supersedes Forest Order # 06-18-00-20-19 executed September 8, 2020, and supersedes Forest Order # 06-18-05-20-20 executed September 15, 2020. These prohibitions are in addition to the general prohibitions in 36 CFR Part 261, Subparts A, B and C. Executed in Springfield, Oregon on this 25 day of September, 2020.

Holiday Farm Fire Update 102

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News

Springfield, Ore. Firefighters continue to make steady progress on the Holiday Farm Fire.  The fire remains in the same foot print and has burned 173,094 acres.  Containment has reached 70%. 

Firefighters continue to detect and extinguish hot spots near the fire perimeter.  They are methodically working inward to ensure that all hot spots and potential threats to the containment line have been mitigated.  This patrol and mop up work will be the focus for many of our firefighters for several days. With hunting season beginning again, fire managers would like to remind people of the area closures.  The fire area continues to have a presence of firefighters and heavy equipment and should be avoided.  These areas will remain closed indefinitely until all of the land managers can determine the extent of the fire effects. Information for the Willamette National Forest can be found at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/willamette/fire Information on Bureau of Land Management closures can be found at: https://www.blm.gov/alert/fire-closures-and-fire-restrictions Highway 126 will be open for travel on Friday beginning at noon.  ODOT is encouraging through traffic to plan for alternate routes, as there will still be recovery work occurring and hazards still exist along the roadway.  Anyone traveling the highway should plan for lengthy delays as crews are still working on the recovery effort.  The speed limit for the highway through the fire area has been reduced to 45 mph.  Extra patrols will be present to enforce this lowered speed limit. For information related to road closures and delays, please visit: www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx Weather today will be slightly cooler as the upper level ridge moves to the east.  Over the weekend, relative humidity recoveries are predicted to be higher.  These conditions will be helpful for firefighters as they continue mopping up.  For fire information inquiries, call (541) 357-9729 or visit https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7170/. The Holiday Farm Fire Facebook page will also continue with updates (holidayfarmfire@face  book.com).

Holiday Farm Fire Update 101

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News

Springfield, Ore. – Hot and dry conditions persisted over the fire area yesterday and are forecasted again for today. Despite the weather conditions and more active fire behavior, the fire stayed in its same footprint, meaning no growth occurred. The fire has burned 173,094 acres. Firefighters continue to make steady progress and it is now 67% contained.

There are many hazards for firefighters on the line. The steep terrain is one of the biggest hazards they will face. Footing can be treacherous and there are frequently concerns of rolling rocks and other debris. Everyone is reminded of these hazards each day at their operations briefing.

Firefighters working on the night shift have focused on patrolling and extinguishing hot spots along Highway 126. While night shift has fewer resources assigned, their work continues to be vital in the continued progress. These firefighters begin their shift at 7:00 p.m. and work through the night.

With the hot and dry conditions today, visible smokes may be more prevalent. Many of these smokes are well interior in the fire perimeter and do not pose a threat. Please do not call 9-1-1 for fire activity occurring well within the perimeter. Firefighters will continue to work from the perimeter inward to find and extinguish visible smoke and other hot spots.

Many areas may remain closed indefinitely as land managers work to assess safety hazards resulting from the fire. Recreationists and others visiting the forest are encouraged to check for closure information before heading out.

Information for the Willamette National Forest can be found at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/willamette/fire

Information on Bureau of Land Management closures can be found at:
https://www.blm.gov/alert/fire-closures-and-fire-restrictions

Road closures remain in place to help provide safety for the public and the firefighters. For information related to road closures and delays, please visit: www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx

For fire information inquiries, call (541) 357-9729 or visit https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7170/. The Holiday Farm Fire Facebook page will also continue with updates (holidayfarmfire@face book.com).

Bureau of Land Management Temporary Closure of Public Lands

Related Incident:
Publication Type: Closures

AGENCY: Bureau of Land Management, Northwest Oregon District, Oregon.

ACTION
: Temporary Closure of Public Lands

SUMMARY
: Pursuant to 43 CFR 9268.3(d) and 43 CFR 8364.1, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) hereby provides notice that effective immediately, the public lands described below are closed to all forms of public access. This action is in response to large fires currently active in the area. The BLM is closing public lands in order to reduce conflicts with emergency crews and allow for fire suppression and burned area site recovery.
AFFECTED AREA: All BLM-managed public lands, roads, sites, and trails in the following areas are impacted by this closure notice:
•BLM lands inside the Holiday Farm Fire Closure Area (see attached map1) and land north ofHwy 20
•BLM lands inside the Beachie Creek and Riverside Campground Fire Closure Area (see attachedmap2)

DATES
: This closure is effective immediately and will remain in effect until such time as conditions allow for safe use of the public lands.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT:
Jose Linares, District Manager, 1717 Fabry Road SE, Salem, OR 97306, telephone (503) 375-5646.

DISCUSSION OF THE RULES:
The public must not enter the closure area. All uses within the closure area are prohibited. Exceptions to these prohibitions are noted below under Exemptions. Incidents of extreme fire behavior and extreme fire danger have been observed throughout the District. You must not enter closed recreation sites. Recovery of these areas is expected to continue into next year, 2021.

EXEMPTIONS
: The following persons are exempt from the provisions of this Order:
1.Any Federal, State, or Local Officer, or member of an organized medical, rescue or firefightingforce engaged in fire, emergency, or law enforcement activities, or public utility employeesengaged in emergency repairs.
2.BLM employees, contractors, or agents engaged in official duties:
3.Individuals operating within the scope of their official and legitimate governmental duties.
4.Parties who carry written approval signed by the BLM Authorized Officer (Field Manager orDistrict Manager) allowing access to the described public lands.

PENALTIES
: Any person who violates this may be tried before a United States Magistrate and fined in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 3571, imprisoned for no more than 12 months, or both. Vehicles found in violation of this order may be removed.

EFFECTIVE
: This Order is effective immediately upon signature.

Holiday Farm Fire Update 930

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News
Springfield, Ore. –  Today is a day of transition on the Holiday Farm Fire.  As of 7:00 a.m. this morning, Oregon Department of Forestry Incident Management Team 1, with Incident Commander Joe Hessel, has transitioned into command of the incident.  This transition occurred after ODF IMT 3, Incident Commander Link Smith, spent 21 days assigned to the fire.  Firefighting operations will remain the same, and a heavy presence of firefighters will remain in the area working on further containment.

The fire remains at 173,094 acres and is now 65 percent contained.

Road and area closures remain in place to help provide safety for the public and the firefighters.  Before heading out, please remember to check the status of the area and the roadways. 

For information related to road closures and delays, please visit www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx.  

Information for the Willamette National Forest can be found at: https://www.fs.usda.gov/main/willamette/fire

Many hazards remain in the fire area.  These include fire weakened trees, stump holes, ash pits and many more.  Additionally, heavy equipment, trucks and other firefighting apparatus remain active in the fire area.  Staying off the roadways and out of the fire area allows these resources to continue to be effective. 

Firefighters will continue to work on detecting hot spots, patrolling fire line, and mopping up.  In areas of the fire line that are secure, restoration work has begun.  This includes constructing water bars on roadways and fire lines, and knocking down berms along dozer lines. 

The weather forecast for today is similar to the forecast yesterday with hot and very dry conditions and light winds.  Slightly cooler temperatures and higher relative humidity is called for this weekend.  Smoke from the fires in California may move into the area today. Smoke will be present within the fire perimeter for the foreseeable future. 

Firefighting efforts are concentrated on the perimeter which is being secured against further spread.  Interior smokes located well within the perimeter should not be reported to 9-1-1. 

For fire information inquiries, call (541) 357-9729 or visit https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7170/. The Holiday Farm Fire Facebook page will also continue with updates (holidayfarmfire@facebook.com).

Holiday Farm Fire Update 929

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News

Springfield, Ore. –  Oregon Department of Forestry’s Type 1 Incident Management Team 3, Incident Commander Link Smith, will hand the fire over to ODF IMT 1, another Type 1 team, tomorrow morning. The team would like to thank the communities in the area for their kind hospitality and support during our stay.The size of the fire stands at 173,094 acres and is now 60 percent contained.

650 personnel are currently working the on the fire that includes 17 hand crews, 44 engines, 7 bulldozers, 7 water tenders and 3 other types of heavy equipment. Just six minor injuries have occurred on the fire since it started the night of September 7th. Fire crews continue to tie containment lines together in tough-to-get-to areas while being supported in the air by four assigned helicopters. Sunday’s higher temperatures and breezy winds stirred up fire activity in some unburned islands around Doe Creek. The interior fire activity posed no threat to containment lines. Today’s weather will continue to be hot and dry but winds are expected to be minimal. As ODF IMT 3 passes the baton, fire and other information can still be gleaned from these sources. For fire information inquiries, call (541) 357-9729 or visit https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/7170/. The Holiday Farm Fire Facebook page will also continue with updates as needed (holidayfarmfire@face book.com). For information related to road closures and delays, please visit www.tripcheck.com or https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx.

###

Holiday Farm Fire Update 927

Related Incident:
Publication Type: News
Springfield, Ore. –  With containment reaching 50 percent, firefighters on the Holiday Farm Fire are once again preparing for another change in the weather. After days of wetting rain and cool temperatures, warm and dry east winds will enter the area later today pushing temperatures into the mid 80’s through Wednesday. Fire managers are cautiously optimistic that work accomplished so far will result in similar results from the last time these conditions tested control lines just four days ago. That east wind event fanned flames and stirred up embers deep inside the fire’s interior, but did not create any problems outside established containment lines. The incident management team and local fire agencies are receiving several inquiries regarding small columns of smoke coming out of the Holiday Farm Fire that appear to be outside containment lines. Please be assured that these “smokes” are well within the perimeter of the fire and pose minimal threat to crossing containment lines or threatening homes. Over 500 firefighters are still working on the fire, gridding areas and extinguishing hot spots. Reconnaissance helicopters and engine patrols are also being used to monitor the fire area throughout the day, and should something of concern flare up, suppression helicopters are still available to respond at a moment’s notice. These small columns of smoke within the interior of the fire could continue to be visible well into the winter months, but again, pose no threat. Please do not report these smokes to emergency services as they overload the system and create unnecessary response. Hazard tree and debris removal will continue along Highway 126, but local motor vehicle traffic will be allowed through with a pilot car along a 10-mile stretch between mileposts 28 and 38.

For more information regarding road closures and delays, visit https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Pages/Wildfire.aspx or www.tripcheck.com.  

###

Subscribe to
The website encountered an unexpected error. Try again later.